The World War 1 Forum (Page 18)

How To Contact Someone on this forum Please Read
To find your Own Messages search for the name you originally used.
This forum supports the Royal British Legion so please donate.
Please reply to anyone you can help!

The forum has 315 pages containing 3146 messages
-10   Prev Page   14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22   Next Page   10+

Posted by: Kay Hunt {Email left}
Location: High Wycombe
Date: Monday 22nd August 2016 at 1:34 PM
Hi Alan - again!

You very kindly found out lots of info about my Dad's father.

Please could I now ask about my mother's. Charles John Wood, born I think in Gravesend Kent on 6 Feb 1884.

He enlisted very young and served in the Indian army as a driver, probably in the Royal Horse Artillery. I think his army no was 14909. He was called up as a reservist in 1914 and served in France until the end of the War. He was great friends until their death with someone he met when he enlisted - Frank Luadaka driver no 14918, I think, in case this helps identify him.

He married Kate Alison Lillian Gardner (born 8 March 1888) in New Cross London, probably before 1913 when my aunt was born.

Many thanks

Kay Hunt
Reply from: Alan Greveson
Date: Tuesday 23rd August 2016 at 11:28 AM

Dear Kay,
The early service record for Charles John Wood, 14904, Royal Horse Artillery (R.H.A.) is not very explicit about the dates when he served with is his various batteries so I have had to fill in the gaps where possible. He enlisted in London on 16th February 1901, stating he was 19 years old and had been born in Maidstone, which might or might not be correct if he enlisted under age. He was a machinist. He grew from 5ft 4ins to 5ft 6ins with a fair complexion, hazel eyes and dark brown hair. He was enlisted for seven years with the colours and five on reserve, at the R.H.A. Depot at Woolwich. On 2nd April 1901 he was posted to “W” Battery R.H.A. which had been raised for the Second Anglo-Boer War and was based at Woolwich in 1901. The Battery had taken part in the State funeral procession of Queen Victoria on 2nd February 1901.
On 8th February 1903, Charles was posted to “L” Battery R.H.A. which served in India, stationed at Trimulgherry, Secunderabad. He would have arrived in India a couple of days beforehand. He was a horse-driver riding one of the battery’s bays which hauled the guns. Charles lengthened his service on 27th March 1904 while at Trimulgherry and he was still there in 1905, according to his conduct sheet which recorded he had been drunk in barracks twice.
Charles qualified for good conduct badges in 1904 and 1906 (two in total) and his military character was “very good”.
On 11th February 1906 he was posted to “S” Battery R.H.A.. I have not located precisely where that battery served. It was at Lucknow on 13th November 1907. It might have been at Barkachha, Uttar Pradesh, on 21st January 1909 when his conduct sheet was signed off. His seven years would have been extended by 12 months because he was serving overseas. It was at this point that his 8 years’ service with the colours would have ended and he would have returned to England to remain on the Reserve for four years. Back in England, on 3rd August 1912 at Woolwich, Charles extended his service in the Reserve by agreeing to continue for a further four years on the “D” Reserve from 16th February 1913 when his 12 years was completed from 16th February 1901. Accordingly, when war was declared in 1914, Charles was re-called to service with the Royal Horse Artillery on 4th August 1914.
He sailed to Zeebrugge on the Belgian coast, arriving on 5th October 1914 with 14th Brigade (XIV Brigade) R.H.A. which served with 7 Division. The Division had been raised from various units of the regular army brought home from garrisons in the British Empire. It was intended the Division would relieve Antwerp, but by the time they arrived it was too late. They covered the withdrawal of the Belgium Army to the West and after that was completed they found themselves at Ypres where they defended the Belgian town against the German advance which came to a standstill and saw the beginning of trench warfare. This was known as “The First Battle of Ypres” (19 October – 22 November 1914). The Division suffered heavy losses and had to be re-formed by February 1915.
On 5th February 1915, Charles was posted to the 3rd Cavalry Division ammunition column with 4 Brigade (IV Brigade) R.H.A. and during 1915 he spent some time at Saint-Sylvestre-Cappel, a commune in the Nord département in northern France, where his conduct sheet showed he was absent from a few parades. He remained with 4 Brigade ammunition column in 3 Cavalry Division until 12th March 1919 when he left Dunkirk to cross to Shorncliffe and was discharged from the Army in England. The engagements of the 3rd Cavalry Division can be seen on Chris Baker’s website, The Long, Long Trail:
http://www.longlongtrail.co.uk/army/order-of-battle-of-divisions/3rd-cavalry-division/
A war diary for Divisional Troops, 3 Cavalry Division, 4 Brigade Royal Horse Artillery, can be downloaded for £3.45 from The National Archives. See:
http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C7351503
Charles qualified for the 1914 Star, the British War Medal and the Victory Medal.
It is not clear whether he served in South Africa during the Second Anglo-Boer War (1899 – 1902). He enlisted fifteen months before the war ended but his name does not appear on the South Africa campaign medal rolls.
With kind regards,
Alan
Reply from: Kay Hunt
Date: Tuesday 23rd August 2016 at 4:55 PM

Dear Alan

Yet again you have been really informative. Thank you so much.

I don't think Grandpa served in S Africa; the family stories don't mention this at all. But I do think he was under age when he joined up, as you suggest. I wonder if he grew 2 ins taller because he was under-age on enlistment or just because he probably ate better in the Army. It certainly led him to love cricket!

Many thanks

Kay
Posted by: Allen Parks {Email left}
Location: Suffolk
Date: Saturday 20th August 2016 at 7:17 PM
Hi Alan, I am trying to find out about my father who as far as i know joined up as a boy in 1916, is name was
Arthur parks, as far as i know he lived in wheatley hill County Durham so i assume he joine one of the
Yorkshire Regiments, i know he died in 1943 when i was just over a year old is it possible for you to find any
thing about him for me,
Regards Allen B. parks
Reply from: Alan Greveson
Date: Saturday 20th August 2016 at 9:22 PM

Dear Allen,
Unfortunately, there are very few surviving army records that have biographical details, such as location. There is no service record that identifies an Arthur Parks in Wheatley Hill so it is not possible to identify Arthur Parks in other military records by his name only. There is no record in the First World War campaign medal rolls of an Arthur or A. Parks in a Durham or Yorkshire infantry regiment. It would be best to know from family sources in which regiment he served, or his regimental number, to enable an effective search of the surviving records.
With kind regards,
Alan

Posted by: Adrian Cunningham {Email left}
Location: Melbourne East Yorks
Date: Saturday 20th August 2016 at 1:24 PM
Hello Allen,
My friend Becca contacted you in 2010 on my behalf, re George Cunningham born 1811, in Currie Scotland and his son also George born 1837 Templemore Tipperary. Both were soldiers in the 25th Regt. K O S B's.
Thank you, I now have the discharge info for both of them. If anyone is connected to the above I am pleased to be contacted.

I am now trying to find brothers and sisters of the above father and son, I am using Find my past site.but can't locate where to obtain this information, help needed.

Further to the above, George Junior ( 1837) married Isabella Susanna Howard (born in Plymouth Devon circa 1837/40. ref. 1881 census ) her father being shown as John Howard pensioner on the marriage certificate. Parish birth register for Plymouth lists only one person born within this time scale with the name Isabella Susanna Cook, mother listed but no father. If anyone wishes to follow this connection pleased to hear.

One last mention, I am in possession of a metal tea pot, handed down to my family, inscribed:-
From Mrs. Fleming to Mrs. Howard 25th December 1864, in commemorating nearly 50 years connection with the 37th regiment. This came from the above connection with the Howard family.

Thanks and regards,

Adrian Cunningham.
Reply from: Alan Greveson
Date: Saturday 20th August 2016 at 7:35 PM

Dear Adrian,
Records of Scottish ancestors can be searched in the old parish registers on the Scotlandspeople website (purchase credits for a few pounds) See:
http://www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk/
Start the search by looking for baptisms within the same parish with the same surname and then the same parents’ names. The detail of the entries will vary, but father’s occupation is a useful indicator as well. If you identify when George’s parents married prior to 1811, that will set the time frame.
As George was a soldier and would have served anywhere in the world a search of army births could be more successful than a search of Irish records.
Researching Irish ancestry without travelling to Ireland is difficult because of the lack of 19th Century census records and limited access to parish registers. Only the 1901 and 1911 censuses are available. There is a restricted amount of birth, marriage and death records. Civil registration for births and deaths start from as late as 1864. Marriages start from 1845.
There was a strongly held Presbyterian belief that a child should be named in the presence of God by being baptised and named in church before the congregation. Consequently, civil, or legal, registration of the birth with the local register office was often made before the church naming ceremony and therefore many civil or legal birth records were indexed simply as “male” or “female” child with the only the surname. Where a male or female birth was legally registered, identifying the parents but not the child by name, it makes later identification difficult without an actual matching baptism record to provide the given name of the child.
Consequently, church records have to be searched alongside any civil registration entries. Church records fall into three main categories: Roman Catholic; Non-conformist and Church of Ireland.
The National Library of Ireland has microfilm copies of almost all pre-1880 Roman Catholic parish registers on the island of Ireland.
Most local Roman Catholic parishes do not permit research on their original records. Callers will normally be referred to the heritage centres whose records are now almost all on www.rootsireland.ie.
The Representative Church Body Library is the official archive of record for Church of Ireland records that survived the burning of the Public Record Office in 1922. A full list of its holdings is at http://ireland.anglican.org.
The Public Record Office of Northern Ireland has freely available microfilm copies of almost all surviving records of all denominations for areas now in Northern Ireland, as well as a good number for areas in the border counties of Donegal, Cavan, Leitrim, Monaghan and Louth.
Some Presbyterian records are only available locally or from the Presbyterian Historical Society. See www.presbyterianhistoryireland.com.
Commercial websites will have some surviving Irish records but not all. For researching the siblings of ancestors before the 1860s you would need to study parish registers and knowing their religion would help narrow the search. There is a full list of which Irish records the Findmypast website has. See:
http://www.findmypast.com/articles/world-records/full-list-of-the-irish-family-history-records
As a soldier, George Cunningham, born 1811, could have served in garrisons overseas for a quarter of a century before returning to the UK. If his wife travelled with him his children might not have all been born while he was posted to Ireland. The Findmypast website does have the ability to refine a Record Set in the birth, marriages and deaths search pane. Type: “British Nationals Armed Forces” in the “Record set” box. There are separate sets for births/marriages/deaths. Set the year of birth to, say, 20 years either side of George’s year of marriage.
Army birth marriage and death certificates can be purchased online from the G.R.O. in the usual manner, ticking the “certificate type” box under the heading “For overseas events which were registered with the British authorities”, on the first page after login.
Details from the Findmypast website are protected by their copyright and can't be reproduced on this forum.
With kind regards,
Alan
Reply from: Adrian Cunningham
Date: Tuesday 23rd August 2016 at 11:38 AM

Hi Alan, ( got your name right this time, fingers not as nimble as they used to be )

Thank you for your in depth answer to my letter, some of the info I already have, but there is also a lot of new for me to look up.

With regard to my reference to the John Howard ( my G Grandfather, pensioner,) and father of Isabella Susanna listed on her marriage certificate. I was told by my Aunt before she passed away that there was some connection ( however remote, ) with the then Duke of Norfolk's extended family, and that somewhere along the line, a son was disinherited. The connection to my family comes from the Mrs Howard inscribed on the tea pot mentioned in my first letter, and monogrammed spoons ,handed down to my family. Since 1856, the eldest or second son had Howard as their second christian name.

I have been trying to trace this connection for some time now, without success, and would hope that you or someone out there might be able to help.

regards,

Adrian Cunningham.
Reply from: Adrian Cunningham
Date: Thursday 8th September 2016 at 1:40 PM

Hi Allan,
With reference to the marriage of George Cunningham to Isabella Susanna Howard, ( Manchester Cathedral 1856. father John Howard ). On the Marriage certificate the address where she was living, was Oldfield Road Manchester, ( no house number stated ). I have looked at 1851 and 1861 census, and cannot find any reference of her stay there. Are there any other ways to solve this problem ?.

Regards Adrian.
Reply from: Alan Greveson
Date: Thursday 8th September 2016 at 6:01 PM

Dear Adrian,
Addresses given on marriage certificates were often addresses of convenience and did not reflect where a person lived. The address for Isabella Howard was Oldfield Road, Salford, not Manchester. The 1851 census of Salford was not originally digitised by The National Archives because it had been so badly damaged by a flood. Efforts have been made to recover it. However, it is by no means certain Isabella Howard lived on Oldfield Road. Usually a wedding was in the bride’s home parish, but in this case the marriage was in Manchester Cathedral which was the Collegiate Church of St Mary, St Denys and St George and the parish church of Manchester, not Salford. A couple was entitled to be married in the Church of England parish in which one of them lived. They could also get married in a church where one of them had a "qualifying connection" such as where they were baptised; or where their parents or grandparents had been married; or their former home town. The couple each had to have the banns read out in church for three consecutive Sundays during the three months before the wedding. Banns are an announcement of the intention to marry and a chance for anyone to put forward a reason why the marriage may not lawfully take place. Banns need to be read in the parish where each of the couple lived as well as at the church in which they are to be married if that was another parish. Banns might have to be read in three churches. Vicars charged for reading of the banns and to spare the cost of the banns being read in both parishes, couples often designed to live in the same parish, staying with friends or lodging with relatives for the period in which the banns were read.
George Cunningham gave an accurate address as he was in barracks in 1856. It might have been easier for Isabella to come to him, rather than for him to travel to her parish. Isabella might have lived in Salford or she might have been staying near the barracks for the wedding. Oldfield Road was round the corner from the barracks. The choice of the Cathedral might have been through the regiment using that church.
The 1851 census for Salford was damaged by flooding and was not digitised by The National Archives. The local family history society has done some work on this census. See:
http://www.1851-unfilmed.org.uk/records.htm
The 1851 census for Oldfield Road, Salford, can be searched by street name on the Findmypast subscription website. There is no-one called Howard in the alphabetical index. The Ancestry website also has the damaged 1851 Salford census.
In 1856 George Cunningham was a soldier in the 25th Foot staying at the Infantry Barracks, Salford, which were on Regent Road. In 1851 when George enlisted the 25th Foot was in Madras, India. In February 1855 the regiment received orders to return to Britain and was recorded as stationed at Manchester by December 1855.
Isabella Howard stated she was 19 and would have been born in about 1837. Her father was named as John, a pensioner, probably an Army or Navy pensioner. A relative named Rachel Howard signed the marriage certificate with her mark as a witness.
Prior to 1856, Isabella would probably have lived with her with her father John, wherever he was serving if he were in the Services. After 1856 she might have travelled with her husband.
With kind regards,
Alan
Reply from: Alan Greveson
Date: Thursday 8th September 2016 at 7:27 PM

Dear Adrian,
In 1850, the 25th Foot was garrisoned in Madras. In 1854, they were at Cannanore (Kannur). They returned to Manchester in 1855. The birth of George and Isabella Cunningham’s first child was at Salford on June 3rd 1858. George James Cunningham, named after George Cunningham’s father, was baptised at Holy Trinity Parish Church, Salford, on 25th July 1858. The baptism entry showed he was the son of George and Isabella Cunningham, of 3 Bombay Street, Salford. Father: 25th Regiment Infantry. Bombay Street, Salford, seems to have been demolished. The birth of a child proved only that the mother was present and it can’t always be presumed that the father was present at the place of birth. Their second child was born in Malta: Mary Louisa was born on June 11, 1863, in Malta. The 25th Foot moved to Gibraltar by November 1858 and on to Malta where they were stationed in 1863.
With kind regards,
Alan
Reply from: Alan Greveson
Date: Thursday 8th September 2016 at 10:20 PM

Dear Adrian,
These are the apparent birth locations of George and Isabell’s children, from Ancestry.co.uk.
I’ve just realised Mary Louisa was a twin. I have either verified with parish registers or checked with BMD entries that they are correct.
George James was born on June 3, 1858, in Salford, Lancashire. (verified)
Mary Louisa was born on June 11, 1863, in Malta. 25th Foot. (correct)
Sarah was born on June 11, 1863, in Malta. 25th Foot. (correct)
Charles Stanley was born at 8.30 a.m. on 3rd January 1868 at Newcraighall, parish of Liberton, Edinburgh, Scotland; father George Cunningham, clerk, and wife Isabella Howard married 1856 Manchester (GRO Scotland, Statutory Births 693/00 0008 via Scotlandspeople.gov.uk). (verified)
Hugh Howard was born on May 21, 1870, in Sheffield, Yorkshire. Baptised 6 July 1870, St Phillip, Sheffield. (verified)
Henry Edward was born in July - September 1873 at Penistone near Barnsley, Yorkshire. He was baptised on December 10th 1875 at St John the Baptist Church, Penistone, son of George (and Isabella) railway clerk, of Willow Bridge. (verified)
James was born Oct – Dec 1875, in Retford District, Nottinghamshire. (correct)
There was a stated birth on Ancestry.co.uk of John William Cunningham born on August 7, 1869 at Gibraltar but I can’t verify this. The timescale seems wrong between Charles born in 1868 in Scotland and Hugh born in Sheffield in 1870. Why would a clerk be in Gibraltar?
You may already have this, but I hope it helps.
Could you please post any new queries as a new message and not as a reply so they will then appear on the front page where I can see them. Thanks.
Alan
Posted by: Kay Hunt {Email left}
Location: High Wycombe
Date: Friday 19th August 2016 at 11:36 AM
Hi Alan
Your site looks amazing!
Please could you help me find out about my grandfather's WW1 service. He was Alfred George Jordan born I think in Fulmer (or poss Stoke Poges) Bucks c 1895. I think he joined up in 1915 under a Short Service Attestation 100306 in the Army Service Corps, living then at 2 Coburg Villas Farnham Royal Bucks. I have some faded photos of him and colleagues playing snowballs alongside their large lorries which I have always understood were taken in France. If they are of any interest I can of course send you copies.
He survived the war and was married in Stoke Poges on 19/11/18.
Many thanks.
Reply from: Alan Greveson
Date: Friday 19th August 2016 at 11:59 PM

Dear Kay,
Alfred Jordan enlisted in the Army voluntarily at Whitehall, London, on 25th May 1915. He was aged 20, 5ft 10ins tall, and was a motor driver, of 2, Coburg Villas, Farnham Royal, near Slough. He had probably responded to advertisements in the local newspapers: “Wanted – Motor Drivers – and Motor Mechanics for Mechanical Transport Section Army Service Corps. Pay 6 shillings per day”. That pay was about the same as the average weekly wage in pre-war 1914; while an infantry private soldier was paid just one shilling a day in 1914.
Mechanical transport was comparatively new to the Army, which relied on horses. The first army petrol lorry was put on trial in 1904. The Army expanded its mechanical transport rapidly to carry heavier war materiel such as ammunition. At first, lorries were requisitioned from private companies that had invested in purchasing motor lorries under a pre-war Government subsidy scheme. The Government paid part of the cost of commercial lorries provided they met military specifications and on the understanding the vehicles could be requisitioned in time of national emergency. This meant the army didn’t have to maintain unnecessary fleets of lorries in peace-time, but could call on supplies of vehicles immediately war broke out. In 1912, one thousand commercial lorries were registered under the Subsidy Scheme which paid their operators £110 a year. In the same year, 1912, new mobilization plans included for the first time the use of petrol lorries by the A.S.C. from railhead to re-filling points. At the same time the plans called for the creation of Divisional ammunition parks operated by the A.S.C. under the supervision of a Royal Artillery officer who ensured the lorries were loaded with the right ammunition and the correct fuses for the intended destination.
As the war progressed military vehicles were developed and the Army Service Corps (A.S.C.) expanded its Mechanical Transport (MT) section. However, it was not the vehicles that were in short supply but men who could operate them. So, already being a motor driver meant Alfred would be willingly recruited by the A.S.C. in 1915. Most transport in the First World War was horse-drawn. The MT Companies drove motor ambulances and omnibuses but many of the heavier vehicles were attached to each Division’s Ammunition Column for carrying ammunition from the Divisional rail-head to what were known as re-filling points from which the supply lines spread out like a fan to the ammunition dumps or stores of the units nearer the front.
On May 26th 1915 Alfred was at Grove Park, London which was the No 1 Reserve MT Depot, where recruits first attended. The premises were in the former Workhouse on Marvels Lane.
On May 29th 1915 Alfred was moved to Chatham, which was probably Chatham Dockyard where the Royal Engineers were based. He remained there until 18th June 1915 when he was moved to “Burnham”. His record does not state which Burnham this was. There was a Burnham near Slough; one on the Essex coast and one on the coast of Somerset. It was a year before Alfred served overseas, and on 22nd May 1916 he sailed for France aboard SS “Princess Clementine” from Southampton to Le Havre where he was attached to 497 MT Company A.S.C.. This company served under the command of V (5) Corps. It formed and operated 61 Ammunition Sub Park. In military terms a “park” is a store established in the area of combat operations. Each Corps had its ammunition park (stockpile) and each division had its own sub-park, which was operated by an MT Company of the A.S.C.. The ammunition was manufactured in the U.K. and was transported to docks on the French coast. From there, or from large stockpiles inland, it was moved by railway to rail-heads nearer the Front. The MT Company then carried the ammunition forward by road in motor lorries to the point where it could be handed over to the horse-drawn transport of the divisional ammunition column.
For V Corps engagements see Chris Baker’s website, The Long, Long Trail at:
http://www.1914-1918.net/corps.htm
The war diaries of 497 MT Company can be downloaded from The National Archives in three parts at £3.45 each. See
http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/results/r?_q=%22497+company%22
An MT Company had some 340 men with 45 three-ton lorries and sixteen 30-cwt vehicles. Transporting ammunition was arduous work as the roads could be pitted with shell-holes; movement by night was without lights; and the vehicles offered no protection from shrapnel or bullets: they had solid tyres and the cabs were often open with no windscreen and covered only by a canvas tilt (cover).
Early in March 1918, 497 MT Company was absorbed by 302 MT Company during a widespread re-organisation of sub parks and ammunition columns. The merged MT Company then became the Divisional Mechanical Transport Company for the 61st (2nd South Midland) Division; it was still doing the same job, under Corps command, but had changed its structure. It would then be known as 61st Div[ision] MT Company. At the same time, in March 1918, Alfred was granted the appointment of unpaid Lance-corporal with 61st Division MT Company. The engagements of the 61st Division in 1918 are shown at:
http://www.longlongtrail.co.uk/army/order-of-battle-of-divisions/61st-2nd-south-midland-division/
The National archives online index appears to show only one war diary for 302 MT Company under “Corps Troops: 61 Divisional Supply Column (302 Company A.S.C.)” for November 1918 to May 1919. See:
http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/f3178e0e0807405ca1b9081a1fb5dd09
Alfred was granted leave to the U.K. from 5th November 1918 to 19th November 1918, during which time he married Millie Curtis on his last day of leave. Following the Armistice with Germany on November 11th 1918, Alfred returned to France on November 20th 1918 and served there until 12th April 1919. He returned to England on 13th April 1919 and was released from the Army on 12th May 1919. His address on release was 2 Fairleigh Villas, Queen’s Road, Slough.
Alfred qualified for the British War Medal and the Victory Medal.
He afterwards lived at 2 Park Villas, Stoke Park, Stoke Poges, and he died there on 29th July 1948.
With kind regards,
Alan
Reply from: Kay Hunt
Date: Saturday 20th August 2016 at 5:45 PM

Hi Alan

You are simply wonderful. Such detailed info, and so quickly provided. Thank you so much.

I'll be sending a donation to the British Legion, which seems the least the family can do in return for your finding out so promptly about Granddad.

After the war Alf Jordan worked as a chauffeur for Sir Noel Mobbs at Stoke Park (now a major golf course). Sir Noel founded Slough Estates - now a major property company - on land used by the government after WW1 for storing disused military vehicles. After selling the vehicles he and his partner converted the factories and turned the area into the first industrial park.

Kay Hunt
Reply from: Alan Greveson
Date: Saturday 20th August 2016 at 6:00 PM

Dear Kay,
Thank you for donating to the Royal British Legion.
With kind regards,
Alan
Reply from: Kay Hunt
Date: Saturday 1st October 2016 at 3:43 PM

Hi Alan

You have already been fantastically helpful. Can I now please ask you for yet more info?

This time it is about my G Uncle Albert James Curtis - 8461 - who was buried at Neuve Chapelle Farm Cemetery (plot H2) on 14 March 1915. He was a private in the 2nd Royal Berks engineers, brought back from India at the start of the war. He was born on 19 Nov 1889 in Reading to Richard and Rachel Curtis.

I understand there two British cemeteries at Neuve Chapelle and a huge memorial for Indian soldiers killed throughout the front, the location chosen as this was the site of the first major battle featuring Indian troops. I am intrigued as to why there are 2 British cemeteries so close together, each to just a few dozen soldiers, esp as they seem to have died over the space of a few days at the farm cemetery and an even longer period at the other. If they did not all die on the same day was it likely that they survived injuries for a few days - rather than being transferred to a clearing station? Or were their bodies perhaps not able to be recovered by their colleagues immediately? I understand that small cemeteries like these generally contain bodies initially buried by their comrades and reinterred after the War by the CWGC.

As always I shall be fascinated by any info you can offer.

Best wishes

Kay Hunt
Reply from: Alan Greveson
Date: Sunday 2nd October 2016 at 2:47 PM

Dear Kay,
The Battle of Neuve Chapelle was fought between the 10th and 13th March 1915 by the British 7th and 8th Divisions; and the Indian Corps of 3rd (Lahore) and 7th (Meerut) Divisions. British and Indian casualties amounted to 11,652 all ranks killed or wounded. It was the first large-scale organised attack undertaken by the British Army during the First World War.
Once the initial fighting had ended the regiments could bury their accessible dead in battlefield cemeteries, although many of the bodies could not be recovered immediately. Neuve Chapelle Farm Cemetery was started in March 1915 by the 13th Battalion London Regiment (13th (County of London) Battalion (Princess Louise's Kensington Battalion) known as “The Kensingtons”. The graves were dug in the corner of a field at the farm that was in the location of the 13th Battalion’s positions during their advance and attack on the village which was put in on March 12th 1915. The Battalion’s war diary noted: “March 12th; 2.30 p.m. Ninth hour of intense [enemy] bombardment. Can it go on for ever?”
Battlefield cemeteries were prone to being damaged by shellfire both at the time and in subsequent years, and in the German Spring Advance of 1918 the Germans shelled and attacked Neuve Chapelle which was then being held by the Portugese, who also have their own cemetery there. Graves in the village churchyard were destroyed by shelling.
On 12th August 1920, when the Neuve Chapelle farm cemetery was visited by an inspection team, there were twenty-four locally made crosses that marked graves of named men and graves of unknown soldiers; of which two could be identified as being of the 13th Battalion and one was “presumed Kensington battalion”.
Two years later, the farm cemetery was inspected again on 28th February 1922 when a further thirteen bodies were identified. These bodies were identified as named men of the 13th Battalion London Regiment although their actual graves no longer existed individually. They were marked collectively by a special cross. The work of the identification teams was conducted with dignity and meticulous care to establish such identifiers as cap or regimental badges; pieces of equipment marked with names or numbers; or identity discs. Using regimental maps and lists of names, the number of buried bodies could be established even if individuals could no longer be identified. If they had a list of 13 men and found 13 bodies then the men could be named in a collective grave even if they could not be individually identified. They were buried alongside their comrades.
The 13th Battalion lost 45 men killed, or died of wounds, in the period from 9th March 1915 to 17th March 1915 at Neuve Chapelle. Twenty of them were killed on March 12th when, after eleven hours of intensive bombardment by the Germans, the Kensingtons were ordered to support the Royal Irish Rifles and the 2nd Battalion Royal Berkshire Regiment in an attack into the heart of the village to capture the German trenches “at all costs”. The war diary stated the 13th Battalion attacked at 5.15 p.m. and lost about 50 men killed or wounded in the advance which was thwarted by “murderous machine gun fire”. They were forced to return quickly to their trenches. The 2nd Battalion Royal Berkshire Regiment lost 86 men killed in March 1915 at Neuve Chapelle.
Before the war had ended, the Army’s, or more formally, the War Office’s “Directorate of Graves Registration and Enquiries” undertook the task of identifying battlefield cemeteries and scattered burials. The Directorate established Graves Concentration Units whose task it was to use maps and lists of names provided by regiments to identify graves. If no individual identity disc was found, the Concentration Units noted fine details such as tattoos or numbers on equipment to help make positive identification. Between the Armistice of November 1918 and the end of September 1921, the Concentration Units found and exhumed 204,650 bodies and re-buried them in cemeteries set aside for the purpose. These graves were initially marked with crosses; not headstones.
The War Office Directorate of Graves Registration handed over the cemeteries to the Imperial War Graves Commission starting in 1920. After the Versailles Peace Treaty of 1919 the Commission formally negotiated with the French and Belgian authorities and landowners for permanent acquisition of land for the war grave cemeteries. At the end of the war there were 2,400 battlefield cemeteries in France and Belgium. Some of the smaller or isolated burial grounds were concentrated into larger war cemeteries to serve a given area. By February 1921 the Imperial War Graves Commission had certified and checked the records for 1,400 of the cemeteries, so there was still much work to be done in the 1920s when the number of cemeteries in France and Belgium was reduced. The Imperial War Graves Commission contacted relatives in 1921 and asked them to provide confirmation of the details of the dead, by returning verification forms, and offering a paid memorial inscription for the war grave headstone and a free entry in the cemetery register.
After 1921 the formal search for bodies ceased but some 38,000 more bodies were discovered by farmers and others between 1921 and 1924. After 1921, through to the 1930s, the IWGC constructed and laid out the now-familiar war cemeteries of identical white headstones arranged to represent battalions of men on the parade ground. The Farm cemetery became one of those war graves cemeteries where the graves were laid out in neat plots and the original crosses replaced with headstones. Today, there are 60 men commemorated at Neuve Chapelle Farm Cemetery of which 35 are named.
During the battle in March 1915 another burial ground was started at Moggs Hole in the village of Neuve Chapelle by units of the 8th Division who took part in the attack on the German trenches. This cemetery was used until November 1915 and includes five graves of British soldiers that were destroyed when shellfire hit the village churchyard where they had been buried.
In 1960 the Imperial War Graves Commission adopted the name of the Commonwealth War Graves Commission.
There are 463 cemeteries and grave locations listed by the CWGC in the Pas de Calais département of France which includes Neuve Chapelle. Some of them are single graves in village churchyards. The reason two regimental cemeteries could be kept in the same village depended on the attitude of the local landowners, the desire to commemorate the fighting in that location and the availability of War Graves Commission gardeners to maintain the cemeteries.
Albert Curtis served with the 2nd Battalion Princess Charlotte of Wales's (Royal Berkshire) Regiment who fought alongside the Kensingtons. Between 4 p.m. and 6.30 p.m. on 14th March 1915 they took up renewed positions in forward trenches in the village of Neuve Chapelle and came under heavy shellfire, although the fighting was “much quieter” by 5 a.m. on the 15th March. The war diary of the 2nd Battalion Princess Charlotte of Wales's (Royal Berkshire) Regiment can be downloaded for £3.45 from:
http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C7352495
With kind regards,
Alan
Reply from: Kay Hunt
Date: Sunday 2nd October 2016 at 4:42 PM

Very interesting. Once again, many thanks.

There is a vivid account of fighting destroying recent graves in All Quiet on the Western Front and soldiers using the coffins as protection. Almost unimaginable horror.
Reply from: Kay Hunt
Date: Sunday 6th November 2016 at 1:56 AM

Hi Alan

Once again I'd like some help please. I now find that my grandma's eldest brother too was killed in WW1.

Richard George Curtis pte 16455 Royal Berks regt 3rd Bn is buried at Portsmouth Highland Road Cemetery. He died on 22 February 1915. He had previously served as a stoker in the Royal Navy from 18 Aug 1892 to 18 Aug 1904.

Richard was born in Reading in 1876 to Richard James and Rachel Curtis and married Kate in Reading in 1907.

Was he injured in France and died on return to England for treatment? Or was he serving near Portsmouth?And was it normal for men who had previously served in the navy to enlist in the army in WW1?

Once again I would be most grateful for any information you can provide.

Kay Hunt
Reply from: Alan Greveson
Date: Sunday 6th November 2016 at 3:52 PM

Dear Kay,
Richard George Curtis did not fight in the First World War.
The 3rd Battalion of any regiment was its depot battalion that remained in the U.K.. The physical depot was a barracks, whilst the men who formed the 3rd Battalion itself could be based at the depot or elsewhere, making room for more recruits in the barracks. The peacetime 3rd Battalion of Princess Charlotte of Wales’s (Royal Berkshire Regiment) was based at Reading, the town where Richard Curtis lived, but the Battalion had moved to Portsmouth, on the coast, in August 1914. While undergoing training, the men could be employed on coastal defence duties.
The Register of Soldiers’ Effects stated Richard Curtis did not qualify for war gratuity when he died in February 1915, because he had enlisted fewer than six months earlier. So he would have volunteered in late 1914.
The Register of Effects recorded he died in the 5th Southern General Hospital at Portsmouth. He would have died while training at Portsmouth. For details of the hospital, see:
http://rcnarchive.rcn.org.uk/data/VOLUME053-1914/page445-volume53-5thdecember1914.pdf
When he enlisted in the Royal Navy in 1892 he stated his date of birth was 2nd August 1873, although in the 1911 census he stated his age was 33 (born about 1878). Richard Curtis had enlisted in the navy for 12 years, so his service would have ended in 1904: a decade before the First World War.
Prior to the outbreak of war the defence of the British Isles was the responsibility of the Royal Navy and the country had a very small standing army. At the outbreak of war, the Royal Navy was up to strength and did not require recruits, whereas Lord Kitchener, Secretary of State for War, had to create the New Armies for which 2.5 million men volunteered.
Richard’s stated age at death was 36. His death certificate can be ordered online for a fee. It is probably England and Wales General Register Office; Deaths: Richard G. Curtis; male; birth year 1879; age 36; Death Jan-March 1915; Portsmouth; Hampshire; Volume 2B; page 1009. See:
https://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/
With kind regards,
Alan
Reply from: Kay Hunt
Date: Sunday 6th November 2016 at 5:32 PM

Dear Alan

Once again you have come up trumps. Thanks so much for your research. Whatever the Q you always know the answer.

His birth certificate show he was born in 1878 - so he enlisted in the navy age at 14 not at 19 as he said. What a life these young boys must have led! The family lived almost opposite the Huntley and Palmer biscuit factory; seeing the world may have seemed preferable to that (and with at least 4 other children at home) or working as a drayman like his dad.

Many thanks.

Kay Hunt
Reply from: Kay Hunt
Date: Friday 18th November 2016 at 4:21 PM

Hi Alan

Once again can I ask for help. This time it's about Frederick R Colson Pte 2391 a musician in the Welsh Guards from 1914 - 20.

He married a widow during the war and when she died in 1929 he married a great aunt. Many thanks.

Kay Hunt
Reply from: Alan Greveson
Date: Friday 18th November 2016 at 7:22 PM

Dear Kay,
Service records for the Welsh Guards are not in the public domain. If your ancestor served only in the First World War his records may be held by the regimental archivist. If your ancestor served after 1920 you would need to apply to the Ministry of Defence. See:
http://www.army.mod.uk/infantry/regiments/29824.aspx
With kind regards,
Alan
Reply from: Kay Hunt
Date: Saturday 19th November 2016 at 2:08 AM

Many thanks - as always, a very prompt reply. I'll try the regimental archivist.
Posted by: Wayne Farmer {Email left}
Location: Amesbury
Date: Wednesday 17th August 2016 at 6:29 PM
Hi Alan,
I'm trying to work out from the various snippets that I can find where and when my Great Grandfather Edgar Alfred Bowes was during his military career. He joined the RH+RFA on the 25th May 1905 and continued with them for 21 years until May 1926. He was a Gunner and Bombardier. He is with the 1st Regiment in Woolwich in 1911 and his Medal roll for the 1914 star says he was in "A" Battery, RHA. His army numbers were #37732 and #1021765. As far as I can tell no service records survive. Can you tell me where he would have been from 1905 until 1926? - googling only comes up with some vague hints.
Any help you can give is much appreciated,
All the best
Wayne Farmer
Reply from: Alan Greveson
Date: Wednesday 17th August 2016 at 10:21 PM

Dear Wayne,
Service records for men who served as late as 1926 are not in the public domain. They are held by the U.K. Ministry of Defence and are covered by the Data Protection Act. The Ministry of Defence may release information to the next-of-kin of a deceased person. They charge a fee of £30 for the service and require proof of death. See the details at:
https://www.gov.uk/get-copy-military-service-records/apply-for-someone-elses-records
The four war diaries of “A” Battery RHA can be downloaded from The National Archives for a fee of £3.45 each. See:
http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/results/r?_st=adv&_aq=%22A%20Battery%22%20AND%20Royal%20Horse%20Artillery&_cr1=WO95&_dss=range&_ro=any
A gunner of the RHA named Edgar Alfred Bowes, born Woolwich about1891, was recorded in the 1911 census stationed with 1st Cavalry Brigade at Aldershot. The 1st Cavalry Brigade was under Aldershot Command between 1911 and 1914.
“A” Battery (Chestnut Troop) Royal Horse Artillery was in South Africa in 1912. The British garrison there was reduced that year and in December 1912 it was announced “A” Battery RHA would move from South Africa to Ambala, India. Ambala is a city in the state of Haryana, India, on the border with the state of Punjab. In 1914, “A” Battery RHA was allotted to the Mhow Cavalry Brigade in the 1st Indian Cavalry Division. The Division arrived in France on 7th October 1914 and served in France and Flanders before being broken-up in February 1918.
Edgar Bowes might not have remained with “A” Battery RHA throughout the war or the rest of his career.
With kind regards,
Alan
Reply from: Wayne Farmer
Date: Saturday 27th August 2016 at 2:28 PM

Thank you so much for your help - very helpful. My aunt is applying for his records so hopefully we can find out more.
Posted by: Judith Lowe {Email left}
Location: Merseyside
Date: Sunday 14th August 2016 at 8:49 PM
Good Evening Alan
I have been working my way through the soldiers names that appear in the Autograph Book and in some cases have had success. However I am unable to find out anything about :- Private J or T Brownsoy 946 of 1st Border Regiment. Can you help me?
A number of soldiers who have written contributions have given no numbers. Is it likely that we would be likely to find anything out about them or is it essential to have a service number?
Regards
Judith Lowe
Reply from: Alan Greveson
Date: Monday 15th August 2016 at 4:47 PM

Dear Judith,
A three-digit regimental number is not common and would normally indicate a soldier who had enlisted prior to 1914 in the Regular Army or the Territorials where the battalion strength was of approximately one thousand men who would have been allotted numbers from one to 999 or higher.
In addition, though, it was usual for soldiers to be identified by their “last three”.
This was an expression for adding the last three digits of a soldier’s regimental number to a soldier’s name to identify him. The last three digits would help uniquely identify men with frequently occurring names within a battalion. So, a David Jones in a Welsh battalion would need some numbers after his name to uniquely identify him. The “last three” were often inscribed with a name on equipment, or even called-out vocally at the guardroom: “Jones, D., 678, Sergeant!” When signing for stores or kit or drawing a rifle from the armoury a soldier would sign his name adding his “last three” numbers, to ensure positive identification.
There is no obvious record of T. or J. Brownsoy of the 1st Border Regiment with the regimental number 946.
A search of Browns* [where the * equals ‘anything’] in the Border Regiment did identify a soldier with the last three numbers 946. He was Thomas Brownson, 18946, 1st Battalion The Border Regiment, from Bolton in Lancashire.
Thomas Brownson first went overseas as a private, aged 18, on 17th July 1915 when he joined the 1st Battalion Border Regiment at Gallipoli (medal rolls index-card). The Battalion had been at Gallipoli since April 1915, so Thomas would have been part of a draft of reinforcements.
There is no record of his returning home, but he must have done because he later served as a Lance-corporal with the 2nd Battalion Border Regiment in France in 1916 (medal rolls, Border Regiment, May 1920).
On the night of 12th October 1916, 35 men from the 2nd Battalion Border Regiment formed a raiding party that set out to the enemy’s trenches in front of Pont de Nieppe, which was the bridge at Nieppe north-west of Armentieres on the road to Bailleul. The attack started at 7.30 p.m. on the evening of the 12th October but two parties were caught by heavy machine gun fire from the enemy on their right and they took no further part. Second-Lieutenant R.B. Wood’s party cut the wire and entered the enemy trenches but Mr Wood was wounded and eventually died of his wounds. Only about seven or eight men entered the enemy trenches and accounted for perhaps three enemy killed with grenades. The party retired, bringing in some of their wounded. Two men were unaccounted for, missing and believed killed (War Diary WO 95/1655/1).
Lance Corporal Thomas Brownson was one of those two missing men. In the course of time, “The Times” newspaper of Wednesday February 21st 1917 listed L/Cpl Brownson as “reported missing; now believed killed”. Thomas was eventually listed as “presumed dead on or since 12th October 1916, France” (Register of Soldiers’ Effects).
His body had been buried and the grave marked with a cross by the Germans at Devasier Farm, Wambrechies, on the road to Quesnoy-sur-Deule, East of Armentieres. On 20th October 1924, eight years after his death, that grave was exhumed and re-located to the British war cemetery at Pont-du-Hem, La Gorgue.
Thomas Brownson’s next-of-kin in the 1920s was shown as his mother, Mary Jane Brownson, 54 Beverley Road, off Chorley New Road, Bolton. He had been born at Bolton in 1897, the son of James and Mary J. Brownson. In 1911, Thomas was recorded as a 14-year-old tanner in a leatherworks, living with his parents and two siblings, James 16 and Harold, 7, at 32, Luton Street, Bolton.
Thomas had enlisted voluntarily at Farnworth, Bolton, Lancashire.
He qualified for the 1914-15 Star, The British War Medal and the Victory Medal.
His elder brother, James , a timber sawyer, enlisted in the West Lancashire Division Royal Engineers on 31st July 1915 at St Helens and served in France and Flanders from May 1917 until June 1919 with 57th Division in 421 Field Company R.E.. He survived the war.
Tracing soldiers by their name and regiment without a regimental number is not always successful unless it was an unusual name. However, it is always worth trying as there might be a service record, casualty report or newspaper article that further identifies the man.
With kind regards,
Alan
Reply from: Judith Lowe
Date: Monday 15th August 2016 at 5:08 PM

Alan, thanks so much for the fascinating information especially about the three digit numbers. Non of this I new anything about. I feel that you have definitely found out man.
Regards
Judith Lowe
Posted by: Kez {No contact email}
Location: Australia
Date: Sunday 14th August 2016 at 6:26 AM
Evening Alan, I am looking for information if available please for a William McNeish born 1899 Glasgow. Parents William McNeish & Jane Forbes. It is my neighbour's Dad, she thought he was in WW1.
I have found a William McNeish Military Service for United Kingdom, Militia Service Records 1806-1815 born Lanark abt 1899. Can you advise please Alan?
Cheers Kez
Reply from: Alan Greveson
Date: Sunday 14th August 2016 at 12:12 PM

Dear Kez,
The entry for William McNeish born Lanark in the Militia records is for a William McNeish born in 1889 whose father was John. Militia service records would not normally extend into the First World War. To search for First World War records you would need to know the man’s regiment and regimental number as so few Army documents from that period have survived.
With kind regards,
Alan
Reply from: Kez
Date: Sunday 14th August 2016 at 11:11 PM

Many thanks Alan, appreciate the information,
Cheers Kez
Posted by: Judith Lowe {Email left}
Location: Merseyside
Date: Friday 12th August 2016 at 7:33 PM
Hi Alan
I am working my way through the names in the autograph book, slowly, and have become stuck on the following soldier. Any help that you can give me will be gratefully received.
Private O J Lewis 16479 ? Coy 9th Battalion Royal Welsh Fusiliers. BEF

Regards

Judith Lowe
Reply from: Alan Greveson
Date: Saturday 13th August 2016 at 11:27 AM

Dear Judith,
The soldier who served in the 9th Battalion Royal Welsh Fusiliers (R.W.F.) with the regimental number 16479 was Thomas James Lewis, who had enlisted on 20th October 1914.
There is little information about him. The 9th Battalion R.W.F. was raised at Wrexham on 9th September 1914, so Thomas probably served with them from the outset. The Battalion joined the 58th Infantry Brigade at Tidworth and spent the winter of 1914/15 in billets at Basingstoke before returning to Tidworth in March 1915.
Thomas James Lewis went to France with the 9th Battalion on 19th July 1915 where they served with the 58th Infantry Brigade in the 19th Division. The Division’s first major engagement was a diversionary action during the Battle of Loos, known as The Action of Pietre, on 25th September 1915. The 9th Battalion had been in the trenches for three weeks without much of a break, and even when on “rest” the men had been occupied at night by taking forward ammunition and trench supplies including chlorine gas cylinders. On the day, the Battalion lost 87 all ranks killed with 165 all ranks wounded. A soldier named T.J. Lewis from the 9th Battalion Royal Welsh Fusiliers was named in a casualty list of mid-October 1915. Published casualty lists often appeared two weeks or so after the event. The Silver War Badge Roll recorded Thomas James Lewis, 16479, was discharged from the Army through sickness on 26th October 1916, which was almost exactly two years after he had enlisted.
Unfortunately, none of the surviving military records provides any biographical detail about him. He survived the war. Thomas James Lewis qualified for the 1914-15 Star, the British War Medal and the Victory Medal. He was granted a Silver War Badge for being discharged through sickness.
With kind regards,
Alan
Reply from: Judith Lowe
Date: Sunday 14th August 2016 at 8:41 PM

Dear Alan

Thank you once again for letting me have all the above information on Private Lewis. The research you have done is extraordinary and I only wish that I was able to find out half as much as you can. .
You are so quick with your replies also.
Regards
Judith Lowe
Posted by: Trevor Purnell {Email left}
Location: Tillington West Sussex
Date: Sunday 7th August 2016 at 12:36 PM
Alan,

Grateful for your help with a mystery. I have researched an RNAS man called Percy Maurice Yeatman F/15822. He was a front gunner on 0/100 bombers at Dunkirk in WW1. He enlisted in RNAS on June 6 1916 when he was 19 years old. I have just found two photographs of him on a family tree on Ancestry. The mystery is that there is also a photograph of him in army uniform. It looks as if it is the uniform of the Queens Royal West Surrey Regiment and he has two good conduct stripes on his lower left sleeve. Could he have enlisted in the regiment in 1914 and gained the stripes before switching to the RNAS in 1916? I can find no information at all on a possible army enlistment for him. An help or suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

Regards,

Trevor
Reply from: Trevor Purnell
Date: Sunday 7th August 2016 at 5:27 PM

Alan,

I forgot to say that he was killed 25/26 August 1917 when the aircraft he was in was shot down close to Bruges. The remainder of the crew survived and were taken prisoners.

Trevor
Reply from: Alan Greveson
Date: Sunday 7th August 2016 at 6:01 PM

Dear Trevor,
Many families have a box of old photographs that cannot be identified because there was no name written on the back when the photo was developed. The photographs you mention have been captioned with inaccuracies in the titles of units which cast doubts on the provenance of the photograph that is described as “Percy Yeatman RNAS uniform c 1917 - Percy Yeatman, aged 19 or 20, wearing Royal Navy Air Squadron [sic] RNAS uniform”.
The photograph is of a young man in Army uniform. I agree with you that the cap-badge appears to be that of The Queen’s (Royal West Surrey Regiment).
The caption is probably guesswork: he is not wearing Royal Naval Air Service uniform; his age cannot be ascertained but is presumed by the fact Percy was killed on 27th August 1917, having been born on 23rd August 1897 and having enlisted on 6th June 1916 at the age of 18 (dates taken from Royal Navy Records Yeatman F15822). In 1917, Percy Maurice Yeatman was serving in the R.N.A.S. in England and from July 22nd 1917 he was stationed at Coudekerque-Village, France, near Dunkirk.
An online search for any soldier named Yeatman serving in The Queen’s (Royal West Surrey Regiment) before or during the First World War returned only one man: Walter Yeatman, who was compulsorily conscripted at the age of 18 years and one month on 16th June 1917, so he is unlikely to have had any pre-war service. He trained in the 23rd Training Reserve Battalion; and on 1st December 1917 he joined the 51st Graduated Battalion of The Queen’s (Royal West Surrey Regiment). He went to France on 30th March 1918 as a recruit of The Queen’s (Royal West Surrey Regiment). Four days later, probably at an infantry base depot in France, he was transferred to the 1st/24th Battalion The London Regiment. On 14th March 1919, he was transferred to the Duke of Cambridge’s Own Middlesex Regiment. His war-time service ended in October 1919.
Walter Yeatman’s service record stated his father was named George Yeatman. George was born in 1856, the son of Henry John Yeatman who had been born in Dorsetshire in about 1813.
Percy Maurice Yeatman was the son of Harry Percy Yeatman, who had been born in 1874, the son of John Yeatman. John Yeatman had been born in 1851 the son of Samuel Yeatman born in 1812 in Dorsetshire. Both families can be traced back to Doresetshire, so it is feasible Percy and Walter could have been distant cousins.
However, it is unlikely the man in the photograph is Walter Yeatman.
Walter Yeatman wore the cap-badge of The Queen’s (Royal West Surrey Regiment) for just three months. Yet the man in the photograph is wearing two Good-Conduct stripes which indicated between five and six years’ unblemished service.
The photograph: The man in the photograph appears to be wearing a smart uniform, certainly much smarter than the average First World War recruit posing before the camera once he had completed basic training. His uniform is the Service Dress dating from 1902 with “stiff” cap which was introduced from 1905. The cap had a flat top and originally had a rather horizontal appearance but in 1912 the front of the cap was raised by the insertion of a small stiffener in the brim. These stiffeners were informally removed at the beginning of the war and their removal was formally sanctioned in 1915. The stiffened cap was re-introduced after the war.
He is carrying a swagger stick which was popular for walking-out but was left at home as a fashion item when men went overseas during the war.
He is wearing a white ceremonial regimental waist belt of a type worn on formal occasions such as Colour Parties, bandsmen, or soldiers at a funeral.
And he has two Good-Conduct stripes. Good-Conduct stripes were awarded to regular army soldiers, the first stripe after two years; and two stripes suggest some six years’ or more service. The rules for awarding the stripes varied and during the war it seems a second stripe could be earned in the fifth year rather than the sixth year.
The uniform style was typically pre-war and yet was continued with the stiff S.D. cap during the inter-war years, right up to the late 1930s. So, smart chap; ceremonial belt; stiff cap and six years’ service; dressed for an occasion. He could be anyone.
But I’ll wager he was not Percy Yeatman.
With kind regards,
Alan
Reply from: Trevor Purnell
Date: Monday 8th August 2016 at 9:01 AM

Alan,

Thank you once again for your speedy and full reply. I agree with everything you say but the army soldier does look very much like Percy in his naval uniform. If he is a relative he must be a close one.

Many thanks and regards,

Trevor
Posted by: Joe Freaney {No contact email}
Location: Derry Northern Ireland
Date: Saturday 6th August 2016 at 10:07 PM
My grandfather, Richard Franey, served with the 2nd Batt Royal Irish Regiment during WW1. His Service Number was 11504. His Medal Card shows he received the British War Medal and the Victory Medal. I have a photo of him as a young soldier in Delhi, 1920. I would love to know when he joined and if he left when the Regiment was disbanded. Thanks.
Reply from: Alan Greveson
Date: Sunday 7th August 2016 at 11:58 AM

Dear Joe,
Records of soldiers who continued to serve after the First World War and who served in India in 1920 would probably not be in the public domain and may be held by the U.K. Ministry of Defence. The M.o.D might release details to the next-of-kin on application and payment of a fee. See:
https://www.gov.uk/guidance/requests-for-personal-data-and-service-records#service-records-of-deceased-service-personnel
A 1922 roll of the newly-created Free State army is searchable on the Irish Military Archives site:
www.militaryarchives.ie.

With kind regards,
Alan

The forum has 315 pages containing 3146 messages
-10   Prev Page   14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22   Next Page   10+

Don't forget to Save this page to your FAVORITES.